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1st Rounder [629]
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Clemson Basketball Needs Outside Help
Mar 17, 2019, 7:40 AM
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I don't know how much difference a coaching change would make. Another approach might be to hire some outsiders with successful experience like former or currrent ADs, coaches, promoters, etc.as consultants to help figure out how we can make basketball more appealing to not just Clemson fans but folks in the upstate that might buy tickets. People will come to games even when you're losing if the effort is great, the games exciting and if they are optimistic about the future. Potential recruits see the empty seats, hear the negative talk and see the product on the floor. Even if facilities are good they can't overcome all of that. We have to find a way to make basketball successful despite the fans lack of interest and lack of tradition. No coach can do that by himself and it clearly won't be easy or cheap. I'd like to hear it at least addressed by our AD and BoT.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 7:45 AM
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Do you want to continue being elite in football or do you want a massive overhaul of the basketball program? Can’t really have both and try to be competitive in baseball and pump money into several women’s sports.
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All-TigerNet [11693]
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yes because basketball is a revenue sport...
Mar 17, 2019, 7:55 AM
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2nd and only other after football.
Baseball and the other sports don’t make a dime...
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: yes because basketball is a revenue sport...
Mar 17, 2019, 7:59 AM
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I’d bet baseball is close to basketball revenue and neither one of them are in the same stratosphere as football
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Heisman Winner [141196]
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On average...
Mar 17, 2019, 8:05 AM
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Baseball revenues are under 2,000,000, basketball is just over 8,000,000, and football is over 31,000,000.
https://amp.businessinsider.com/college-sports-football-revenue-2017-10
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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That’s your average school too
Mar 17, 2019, 8:07 AM
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Clemson is a school with a much more popular baseball program and subpar for the most part basketball program.
Football will always be king and if 90% of the athletic dept budget goes to it I'd be more than okay with that.
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All-TigerNet [11693]
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Re: yes because basketball is a revenue sport...
Mar 17, 2019, 8:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: yes because basketball is a revenue sport... ] |
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College baseball doesn’t make any revenue. It’s closer to soccer than it is college basketball.
Yeah ever wonder why the only sports college football and college basketball give full rides on scholarships?
Or why college football and basketball are the only sports that have big contracts with the cable TV and regular networks?
This is your answer...
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Heisman Winner [141196]
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Baseball is closer to basketball than basketball is to...
Mar 17, 2019, 8:08 AM
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football.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Heisman Winner [141196]
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110%er [7191]
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Re: Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 8:13 AM
[ in reply to Rank it as a priority ] |
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You don't need a massive overhaul of the basketball program. You just need a head coach with the passion, fire and the drive of our football coach, and I just don't see that same intensity in our basketball coach. Brad is a good X's and O's man, but is also not a good recruiter, IMO. Maybe a change at the Head Coaching job, with a coach who can also hire a couple of good assistants is needed. There is no reason why all three programs can't be competitive. Dabo has definitely earned his position, Monte is in only his 3rd season so he still needs time, but again, just my opinion, Brad has underachieved way more than either Dabo or Monte. So, just saying, if FSU can get to the championship game of the ACC Tournament in Hoops,there should be no reason Clemson can't do the same.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 8:19 AM
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The massive overhaul comment was in reference to the OP saying it would take more than just a coaching change.
Personally, I’d like to see a new, younger coach who can recruit better talent and not have to rely on transfers so heavily. With the new facilities recruiting should be in a better spot than it is. You have to know going into it that you probably won’t have great fan support unless you put an exciting product on the floor. Still can’t tell me we can’t find a good mid major coach willing to come in and take on that challenge
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110%er [8253]
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Re: Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 8:33 AM
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The massive overhaul comment was in reference to the OP saying it would take more than just a coaching change.
Personally, I’d like to see a new, younger coach who can recruit better talent and not have to rely on transfers so heavily. With the new facilities recruiting should be in a better spot than it is. You have to know going into it that you probably won’t have great fan support unless you put an exciting product on the floor. Still can’t tell me we can’t find a good mid major coach willing to come in and take on that challenge
Wondering why you think recruiting should be better than it is with the new facility? The new facility is a step in the right direction but only gets us in the top half of the ACC in terms of facilities. Did you know the incoming class is the highest ranked in many years? Our recruiting would be better except we don’t take JUCOs, we require certain academic standards as opposed to the mid majors, we have no natural recruiting territory, we don’t play the AAU handler game, little basketball history and basketball is 2nd or 3rd most important sport at Clemson.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 9:16 AM
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We were told the new facilities would help recruiting. I get this class is better but this is a pretty standard class for a P5 program. There are plenty of other schools that don’t take JUCO’s or play AAU games that are consistent tournament teams. It’s certainly not impossible.
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Orange Blooded [2248]
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Re: Rank it as a priority
Mar 17, 2019, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to Rank it as a priority ] |
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Do you want to continue being elite in football or do you want a massive overhaul of the basketball program? Can’t really have both and try to be competitive in baseball and pump money into several women’s sports.
Why not? Florida and Michigan have been successful in football and basketball. Texas and Ohio State have had good times in basketball. Michigan State is more of a basketball school, but has excelled at times in football.
More success in basketball would provide more money for other sports and baseball supports itself. I don't know that we will necessarily be a successful program, but I don't understand any argument not to try. Florida has had national championships in football, basketball and baseball over the last 15 years. Why not Clemson?
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All-In [44204]
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Baseball does not support itself.
Mar 17, 2019, 12:13 PM
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I know a lot of TigerNetters love baseball, but the reality is that it is a money loser at Clemson. It doesn’t come close to being profitable.
Basketball at Clemson makes a sizable profit - on the order of several million dollars a year. It’s revenue is much more than baseball’s is.
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CU Guru [1105]
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They had decent crowds the year they played in Greenville
Mar 17, 2019, 8:19 AM
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But it's hard to get people to drive to Clemson for a 9:00 game on a Tuesday. You'll need a top 10 team to motivate people to do that. And Clemson's students aren't what they used to be. You need a top ranked team to get them to come out in numbers. They've tried everything from giving out free food to free TVs. It doesn't work. We're lucky if the students that do show up actually cheer for Clemson instead of the visiting team. They used to tie IPTAY rankings to attending sports wearing IPTAY shirts, and you could get better football seats that way. Not sure if they still do that, but that seemed to work back then.
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Orange Blooded [3459]
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Re: They had decent crowds the year they played in Greenville
Mar 17, 2019, 8:36 AM
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If you want backsides in seats for basketball, cut the price of the tickets. This is not an elite program at this time. The prices of tickets should reflect the product on the court. When the program starts going to the NCAA every year then increase prices to reflect.
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CU Guru [1105]
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Clemson student tickets are literally free ***
Mar 17, 2019, 9:04 AM
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CU Guru [1498]
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Re: They had decent crowds the year they played in Greenville
Mar 17, 2019, 2:55 PM
[ in reply to They had decent crowds the year they played in Greenville ] |
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The game times this year were very unfortunate and didn’t help attendance. All but like one home game was either noon on Saturday or 9pm on a weeknight.
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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Renovation and redesign of seating in Littlejohn was
Mar 17, 2019, 8:33 AM
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underwhelming and just about sums up our basketball program and history in a nutshell. IT was supposed to be a noticeably different look and more intimate and crowd more intimidating. It is less intimidating. I still can't figure out where the student section is from tv. The players and coaches being seated off camera doesn't help recruiting, and the line of old folks and soccer moms seated in straight back chairs on the floor is the worst. IT does look more intimate however, as it looks smaller and without shape. Should have torn the place down and started over, but I hate to imagine what the place would have looked like then, considering some of the new buildings on campus. Good lord the architecture and look of campus took a beating with that core campus monstrosity and now the business college.
But back to basketball itself. Meh, had they won the close games, they would have had a couple of great back to back seasons. Blew about three or four one point games. Could have easily bee 23-9 or 24-8, with a 12-6 conference record. That coupled with last year's sweet sixteen and would have been a good trajectory. Not sure the problem is Brownell, although it doesn't seem he can win the close games and his recruiting is lacking.
Clemson football, baseball, soccer are always pretty good. And with football at the absolute top of its game, we can't really complain about games. I've been more disappointed in the look of campus lately than anything else. I went to campus for the natty celebration on the morning of January 14th I believe it was. And I thought the campus looked bad and run down. Maybe it was because it was the dead of winter and it was cold and gray, but it looked run down and unkempt. Ground looked scraggly, big dumpsters (not construction dumpsters) were right outside of front doors of dorms at teh shoebboxes and looked like they had been shoved catty corner and were just sitting there with that as their location. It was shocking. No rhyme or reason to grass, although dormant, and bare spots, lack of shrubbery etc. Walking through Calhoun Courts and between the high rises was depressing. All of that area just looked drab and embarrassing. Just bare dirt between the high rises and again, big dumpsters in places where no attempt at all to make them look a little more concealed and bare dirt between the buildings. The new buildings look worse than the old ones. Construction fences up and leaning where there was no construction like at the old Vickery Hall location. The campus looks bad and I never thought I would say that about campus.
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CU Guru [1105]
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They do a lot of maintenance work during the winter break
Mar 17, 2019, 9:08 AM
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That probably explains some of the dumpsters. I was there in November and it looked fine, and my niece took a tour a couple weeks ago and said it was the nicest campus she's seen.
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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That's nice to know because I was shocked in January. I
Mar 17, 2019, 12:09 PM
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don't remember being that alarmed in the fall when I went to the Louisville game, or last Spring at the spring game. However, I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done for a horrid building design like the two core campus buildings by the p-plant.
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Orange Blooded [2217]
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Re: Renovation and redesign of seating in Littlejohn was
Mar 17, 2019, 9:17 AM
[ in reply to Renovation and redesign of seating in Littlejohn was ] |
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Complains about buildings being old and run down then the next sentence complains about construction of new ones. Realistic expectations I see
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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The old ones looked run down and the new ones are ugly
Mar 17, 2019, 12:11 PM
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by design. What's hard to understand about that?
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All-TigerNet [12603]
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Not allowing old buildings to become rundown looking and
Mar 17, 2019, 12:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Renovation and redesign of seating in Littlejohn was ] |
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expecting new buildings to have a decent design and look are unrealistic expectations? I don't see how any of what I said could even conjure the thought of unrealistic expectations. In fact, the old "unrealistic expectations" is and has alway been one of the biggest cop out reply lines throughout history.
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CU Guru [1250]
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The Only Outside Help Needed Is
Mar 17, 2019, 2:50 PM
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for several basketball coaches and/or boosters to be sentenced to prison time. Clemson men’s basketball would then make an outstanding turnaround.
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