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Replies: 69
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110%er [7318]
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All-In [31932]
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Re: What's the point of the 2nd Ammendment if the cops can kill you in your own home
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May 13, 2024, 5:50 AM
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I’ve seen a lot of situations where police officers wrongly murder people, but if you watch the video of this one I’m afraid I come down on the cop’s side immediately.
Police at your door, announcing themselves, and you open the door with a pistol in your hand? What in the world was the cop supposed to do, just wait to be shot? This is sad, but in my opinion easily justified.
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110%er [7318]
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Good to know
May 13, 2024, 6:11 AM
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That if someone at my door announces that they're cops, I better disarm or risk being legally killed. Worth noting here that the cops are only there because some ahole neighbor said there was a disturbance even though he was there alone. No warrant, no subpoena, nothing other than someone's word.
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All-In [31932]
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Re: Good to know
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May 13, 2024, 7:07 AM
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Like I said, I think its a tragedy, there are a million things that could have been different and have this not end in tragedy, but I don’t think the officer had much choice. Officers are put into impossible situations like this, and I don’t envy them.
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CU Medallion [60459]
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How does the cop know that you dont want
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May 13, 2024, 7:11 AM
[ in reply to Good to know ] |
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to kill him? What is the purpose of you holding the gun?
Contrary to popular belief and with plenty of case law to support, a cop doesn’t have to wait for you to point. By holding the gun and being threatening to the cop, it’s being grounds for lethal force.
You can’t wait for them to shoot first or cops would be dying at twice the rate.
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CU Medallion [60459]
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Domestic call is one (if not the most)
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May 13, 2024, 7:33 AM
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violent of all calls for service. You aren’t being called there to play board games and have coffee. Someone has typically be assaulted, afraid they will be assaulted or afraid for their life.
You show up to a domestic and a dude is holding a gun…..that is on him. ESPECIALLY when you announce.
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All-In [25106]
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What should the charges be for whomever it was that 'swatted' him?***
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May 13, 2024, 7:43 AM
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110%er [7318]
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So what's the point of the 2nd ammendment?
May 13, 2024, 8:00 AM
[ in reply to How does the cop know that you dont want ] |
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If you have to lick those boots? I thought gun rights were suppose to scare the gubber mint. If they can use this excuse in your home, imagine trying to legally carry out in public.
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Oculus Spirit [98213]
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To date I have seen ZERO people in SC open carrying now since the law
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May 13, 2024, 8:22 AM
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was passed that basically any and everyone could. I think this more than proves the "issue" never was an "issue" to begin with, and politicians screwed up just throwing red meat pandering to voters. If there was a sincere public demand for open carry, you'd see people carrying every day now. Nope. Seen NOTHING. And probably because it's dangerous. It's dangerous if you encounter a police officer, a fight, or anything else. And honestly, any "regular" citizen who I may happen to see open carrying would indicate that person is inherently more of a danger than a solution, simply for having the gun at his side. It already shows he's insecure, and that's a person to avoid, just like an insecure cop.
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110%er [7094]
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Re: To date I have seen ZERO people in SC open carrying now since the law
May 13, 2024, 9:28 AM
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Just about everyone I know carries, if not all the time most of it. None of them would "open" carry unless they were in the woods doing in the woods stuff.
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110%er [5333]
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Re: To date I have seen ZERO people in SC open carrying now since the law
May 13, 2024, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to To date I have seen ZERO people in SC open carrying now since the law ] |
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Sc is constitutional carry…not open carry. Constitutional carry covers open carry and concealed . So you’re not seeing a ton more open carry because they are opting to conceal.
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Oculus Spirit [81735]
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So CWP's are no longer required?***
May 13, 2024, 11:40 AM
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Oculus Spirit [98213]
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Nope. Carry open, carry concealed, no training, no problem.***
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May 13, 2024, 1:09 PM
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Legend [17472]
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So when the FBI or ATF come knocking, just hand over your guns
May 13, 2024, 9:04 AM
[ in reply to How does the cop know that you dont want ] |
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Apparently they have justification to gun you down in your own homes for appearing to be “threatening” or like previously mentioned, a swatting?
LE are put in difficult situations but trigger happy responses can’t be written off.
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All-In [31932]
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Re: So when the FBI or ATF come knocking, just hand over your guns
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May 13, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Yes, I can say unequivocally that if the FBI or ATF or even a traffic cop knock on my door, I will not open the door with a gun in my hand.
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Legend [17472]
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How does one validate its LE with a closed door, muffled sound?
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May 13, 2024, 11:57 AM
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Your perspective is is likely based on living in a middle class to affluent neighborhood where community criminal activity is low. In neighborhoods with higher crime rates, a knock on the door out of the blue may be met with more skepticism and caution _ having your gun at your side may be prudent based on different experiences.
Pointing the weapon is totally different.
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Orange Blooded [3209]
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Re: Good to know
May 13, 2024, 8:57 AM
[ in reply to Good to know ] |
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You can see how it could happen though.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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To be fair, it's kind of his fault
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May 13, 2024, 6:51 AM
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for being black and all. Always try to answer the door when it's the cops as something besides black.
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: To be fair, it's kind of his fault
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May 13, 2024, 7:03 AM
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Yeah, it had nothing to do with the gun.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: To be fair, it's kind of his fault
May 13, 2024, 9:43 AM
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Yeah, it had nothing to do with the gun.
Maybe the gun was black
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: What's the point of the 2nd Ammendment if the cops can kill you in your own home
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May 13, 2024, 7:02 AM
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Not surprising that this is your take.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this.
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May 13, 2024, 8:17 AM
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Are you a 2nd Amendment proponent? Of course you are. What does the 2nd Amendment state? That you're allowed to keep and bear arms? Probably most especially in your own domicile? How does simply holding (bearing) a gun, unbrandished and not trained on an officer or anybody else, in YOUR OWN HOME, become a situation where you can/should be executed on sight?
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this.
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May 13, 2024, 8:25 AM
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The police identified himself and the man approached the police with a gun in his hand. Is this a situation that could have been handled better - most likely. I don't think you should approach the police while holding a fire arm.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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The cop knocked and didn't identify himself.
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May 13, 2024, 8:44 AM
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He knocked a second time and identified himself as "Police".
Gee, what a pickle. If I wanted to kill somebody in an apartment, all I have to do is say "Police!", and they'll either 1) put their gun down and be an easy target, or 2) hold their gun when answering the door (as is their Constitutional right to do so, whether a police officer likes it or not) and be summarily executed by LEO.
So I guess we just have to hope criminals never claim to be police, yeah? If you're a defender of the 2nd Amendment, you should have a major problem with what occurred here, because this man clearly did NOT have the right to bear arms in his own home because of a scared police officer.
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: The cop knocked and didn't identify himself.
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May 13, 2024, 8:47 AM
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Maybe the badge is fake. Maybe the police car is fake. Get arrested and the guy tries to arrest you, just shoot him. Who knows, it could be fake.
Someone identifies himself as the police, opening the door with a gun is not the move.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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What a wild take. That's the exact formula for how to commit a home invasion
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May 13, 2024, 8:50 AM
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then. Even peepholes are no good, could be a plainclothes cop. He SAID he was a cop, so I HAD to put my gun down.
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: What a wild take. That's the exact formula for how to commit a home invasion
May 13, 2024, 8:54 AM
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So, you think that was the right thing to do - approach the police with a gun?
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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He answered the door in his own home. He didn't approach anybody.
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May 13, 2024, 8:59 AM
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What story are you reading? And even further, the cop knocked without identifying himself, and hid out of sight. Then he knocked again, identified himself (because nobody ever lies about who they are, especially criminals), and continued to stay mostly out of sight of the peephole.
But he said he was a cop, so...better answer the door unarmed since cops are allowed to execute people exercising their Constitutional rights if they get a little scared.
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Hall of Famer [24588]
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Re: He answered the door in his own home. He didn't approach anybody.
May 13, 2024, 9:25 AM
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This one -
"The deputy knocks twice more, each time with the command: “Sheriff’s office, open the door!”
Opening the door, Fortson holds to his side what appears to be a gun, pointed at the ground."
Came to the door with a gun
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CU Medallion [60459]
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Cops NEVER know what is in that house.
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May 13, 2024, 9:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this. ] |
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who is approaching…are their third parties in the house with a firearm that are dangerous.
Until you walk into a dark house with a flashlight looking for a man that just beat the #### out of his wife, you will have no clue.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this.
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May 13, 2024, 9:44 AM
[ in reply to Re: I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this. ] |
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The police identified himself and the man approached the police with a gun in his hand. Is this a situation that could have been handled better - most likely. I don't think you should approach the police while holding a fire arm.
Do not confuse him with rational comments
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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The adults are conversing, please refrain from your standard 5th grade
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May 13, 2024, 9:57 AM
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comments and insertions. You're free to engage if you can use more than 6 words in a reply and you posit more than "you got him good, we're on the same team, high five!"
So, go ahead, explain your take on this. Do you have the right to bear arms? Do you have the right to bear arms in your own domicile? Can a scared LEO remove that inalienable Constitutional right that you ostensibly have on his whim?
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: The adults are conversing, please refrain from your standard 5th grade
May 13, 2024, 11:07 AM
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comments and insertions. You're free to engage if you can use more than 6 words in a reply and you posit more than "you got him good, we're on the same team, high five!"
So, go ahead, explain your take on this. Do you have the right to bear arms? Do you have the right to bear arms in your own domicile? Can a scared LEO remove that inalienable Constitutional right that you ostensibly have on his whim?
You should have respect for law enforcement and not be carrying a weapon after addressed by law enforcement-this has nothing to do with second amendment rights.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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Alright, let's break this down.
May 30, 2023, 7:44 AM
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You have the RIGHT to bear arms, especially in defense of your own domicile, but out of RESPECT for LEO, you should disarm yourself and forgo your Constitutional right to hold and carry a firearm? In your own home?
What if it wasn't actually an LEO, and just somebody claiming to be one? Ever heard of that happening? Because it does.
This has EVERYTHING to do with 2nd Amendment rights. I think you just don't really care for the Constitution that much.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: Alright, let's break this down.
May 13, 2024, 3:06 PM
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You have the RIGHT to bear arms, especially in defense of your own domicile, but out of RESPECT for LEO, you should disarm yourself and forgo your Constitutional right to hold and carry a firearm? In your own home?
What if it wasn't actually an LEO, and just somebody claiming to be one? Ever heard of that happening? Because it does.
This has EVERYTHING to do with 2nd Amendment rights. I think you just don't really care for the Constitution that much.
You are an idiot, if law enforcement announces themselves and you are worried about it being a fake-you ask that they provide some form of identification. You do not go to the door and open it with a weapon, well maybe on second thought YOU would do that.
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CU Medallion [60459]
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The cop isnt knocking just to come in and say hello
May 13, 2024, 9:31 AM
[ in reply to I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this. ] |
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he had been called there for a violent situation. In which in most cases one party knows they are going to jail.
If you want to call 911 and have an officer come to your home, holster that gun or just conceal carry and tell the police that you have it.
Typically police will be cool with that or ask to take the weapon if concealed and make it safe while you talk it out.
It’s not hard to do the right thing to keep police safe.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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So you don't actually have the right to BEAR arms, in your own domicile?
May 13, 2024, 9:59 AM
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Not threaten, point, or brandish. BEAR. Hold a gun. You don't have that right?
For as much as you guys scream about being Constitutionalists, you're really giving up the authoritarian game here.
What about when the government gets uppity? Still going to listen to cops who tell you you don't have the right to bear a firearm?
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CU Medallion [60459]
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Sure you can, but you also have to be responsible
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May 13, 2024, 10:31 AM
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it’s not hard to understand that you can own and have a gun in your home, but when an officer shows up, that is not a time to brandish the firearm.
You have to be aware that the officer doesn’t know you, doesn’t know your intent, doesn’t know what has transpired, etc.. It’s simply just being a responsible gun owner.
What is your intent when approaching a cop with a gun? What is the intent? Especially when he has been alerted to a situation or has been called to your house. ESPECIALLY when announced.
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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I'm starting to think we watched two different videos.
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May 13, 2024, 10:41 AM
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"Brandished" a gun? You mean he was holding a gun? Not threatening, not brandishing, not pointing...HOLDING a gun?
And B..."approaching" a cop? He was in his own house. He didn't approach anybody. He answered his OWN door, which has somebody he doesn't know on the other side.
What you're saying is applicable when out in public, and both parties are in clear view, as in, say, a traffic stop. This doesn't fly here, unless you're just giving up all of your property, due process, and 2nd amendment rights to LEO because they have a tough job or something.
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CU Medallion [60459]
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We are not going to agree here..
May 13, 2024, 10:53 AM
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I just hope that if you have a gun, you put it away when the cops arrive or if you have a CPL, you will announce, as by the law, that you have the gun.
We shall agree to disagree.
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CU Guru [1088]
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Re: We are not going to agree here..
May 13, 2024, 11:11 AM
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I just hope that if you have a gun, you put it away when the cops arrive or if you have a CPL, you will announce, as by the law, that you have the gun.
We shall agree to disagree.
He is not smart enough to understand that
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Heisman Winner [138789]
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Re: We are not going to agree here..
May 13, 2024, 11:31 AM
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All-Pro [658]
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Re: We are not going to agree here..
May 13, 2024, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to We are not going to agree here.. ] |
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This happened with Philando Castille and he's in a casket.
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Heisman Winner [112458]
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Re: We are not going to agree here..
May 13, 2024, 8:16 PM
[ in reply to We are not going to agree here.. ] |
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Isn't he supposed to draw his weapon and yell "drop your gun" before unloading 4 shots into the guy's torso at close range? Me thinks the cop had no business carrying one and should be behind a desk sharpening pencils for the rest of his law enforcement career, he is strung a little too tight to be out in the streets.
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All-In [25106]
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110%er [7094]
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I've got to agree here.
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May 13, 2024, 9:36 AM
[ in reply to I'm actually surprised this is where you're coming down on this. ] |
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Why did he have the gun in his hand?? Well, I guess we'll never know, maybe it was because of the neighbor, maybe there was some other circumstance. The whole dead men tell no tales thing comes to mind.
I wouldn't go as far to say it was race related, because that assumes too much that can't be assumed, but if the dude just opened the door with a pistol in his hand and was immediately shot, I can't get behind that being "justified".
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110%er [9711]
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The lady that met the officer in the parking lot was convinced there was
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May 13, 2024, 9:04 AM
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something bad happening in that apartment.
Cops HAVE to have more leeway than the rest of us. If he waits for backup, the bad things in that apartment might continue or someone who needs medical attention immediately might have to wait.
I don't know the correct answer here - but I don't blame the officer.
This - "He didn't point the gun at him" - is BS. That's too much to ask - wait until he points the gun at you before you are allowed to fire.
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110%er [7094]
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Still making a lot of assumptions here.
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May 13, 2024, 10:22 AM
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Was he instructed to put down the gun and refuse to do so? Like I said, if he was shot immediately simply because he had a gun in his hand opening the door to his own home, that's a step too far for me.
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110%er [9711]
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I understand your point-of-view, but I don't see anyway to view this other than
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May 13, 2024, 10:44 AM
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as a tragic accident.
The officer HAS to respond the way he did, right? I mean he HAD to go to the door and bang on it and announce he was an officer. He couldn't stand in front of the door or show his badge through the peep-hole (because then the person inside could shoot him through the door).
Curious - what's your alternative scenario? Are you saying that, as a trained officer, he should be able to wait to see if the guy aims the the gun at him?
The officer had reason to believe there is possibly someone in danger in that apartment.
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110%er [7094]
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Re: I understand your point-of-view, but I don't see anyway to view this other than
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May 13, 2024, 10:55 AM
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This is why I'm saying that we are making a lot of assumptions. First thing would be to order to put the gun down. Did that happen and the guy refused? Was the guy belligerent towards to officer? We don't know any of that.
If he was simply shot dead for answering the door with a gun in his hand pointed at the floor, then I can't agree with it being justified.
I almost always give the officer the benefit of the doubt in situations like this, but there are too many unknown variables for me to make that case.
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110%er [9711]
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I don't know if there was an interaction between the victim and the officer
May 13, 2024, 11:09 AM
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before the door was opened or if the officer heard anything inside the apartment. I do THINK that I know there was no "put the gun down" order. The guy opened the door with a gun in his hand and the officer shot immediately.
If your thought is that the officer should have a cooler head in a situation where his own life could be in danger - then we'll have to agree to disagree. A woman met him in the parking lot, frantic, pointing out that apartment specifically. Maybe she pointed out the wrong apartment - but the officer's senses had reason to be on high alert.
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110%er [7318]
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No, quit holding cops to such low standards.
May 13, 2024, 3:50 PM
[ in reply to I understand your point-of-view, but I don't see anyway to view this other than ] |
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If you can't tell the difference between someone with a gun in a nonthreatening position and a threatening one, you shouldn't be carrying. In this case the guy had his weapon lowered and finger off the trigger. It's again worth noting that the cop was only there because of the word of a neighbor. Clearly there wasn't any sign of a disturbance for the cop if he was in there alone.
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110%er [5723]
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110%er [9711]
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Don't know if it's a lib thing necessarily - but that situation does illustrate
May 13, 2024, 10:55 AM
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the pressure and issues LEO face every single day. They have to be given extra leeway so they can do their jobs. (A job that needs to be done and that there aren't a lot of folks willing to do it.)
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All-In [42600]
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I, too, gotta say...
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May 13, 2024, 10:26 AM
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If they knocked, announced, and you answer with a gun in your hand, well, play stupid games...
EDIT: I just realized I had something similar happen. Many years ago, living in an apartment in Greenville, my car was broken into. Cops came to the door but it seemed a little odd, it was late at night, and I felt I needed to be careful. I went to the door with my firearm but shouted through the door for them to provide evidence they were law enforcement. When I was satisfied with the answer, I put the gun up and then answered the door. Seems to be that's the safe way to do it.
Message was edited by: Catahoula®
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110%er [9711]
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That's exactly how I think this situation could have ended well.***
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May 13, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81735]
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If a cop comes to my door, I'm not opening it. Period.
May 13, 2024, 11:31 AM
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I'm not compelled by any law to even have to talk to them, much less open my front door for them.
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All-TigerNet [13377]
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What's the point of "pursuit of happiness" if Libs are always fk'n it up?***
May 13, 2024, 11:37 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81735]
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Who is the "lib" here?***
May 13, 2024, 11:39 AM
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All-In [40976]
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I suggest that you never own
May 13, 2024, 12:12 PM
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a gun. Wouldnt do you any good anyway.
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110%er [7318]
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Nobody tell him.***
May 13, 2024, 3:54 PM
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All-TigerNet [11488]
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Re: What's the point of the 2nd Ammendment if the cops can kill you in your own home
May 13, 2024, 2:21 PM
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My Dad taught us gun safety and how to shoot. He also told us there were only 2 reasons to ever shoot a gun (besides at the range) and that was to save a life or put meat on the table. He instilled that a gun should NOT be seen by anyone unless you plan to use it for one of the 2 reasons above.
I believe in the 2A and that I have a right to buy a weapon if I want. Those weapons are set aside for hunting or to be used in the event of a survival situation, not for show.
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All-TigerNet [11056]
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Yep, we dont live in a free country.
May 13, 2024, 3:15 PM
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I’ve been railing against no knock raids forever, but people don’t seem to care.
I think the major blame goes to the media, who turn every police killing into a racial issue rather than examining the police policies and why those are such crap.
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110%er [7318]
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Qualified Immunity and Police Investigating Themselves Don't Help***
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May 13, 2024, 3:56 PM
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All-TigerNet [12332]
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Will be interesting to get a full accounting in the investigation but from first
May 13, 2024, 7:27 PM
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glance I'm leaning towards cac2011 on this one. Too many "wrongs" on the police side of this equation to simply say the young man answered the door with a gun and therefore the LEO deadly force response was required/justified. There is definitely some questions that need to be answered:
1. What exactly was said to the dispatcher in the call claiming there to be a domestic disturbance at this Apartment complex? Was the dispatcher given an apartment number/name of the who was committing the domestic disturbance by the caller? Did the dispatcher get the name/contact information/location of the person making the complaint. If not - why did the dispatcher not gather all this information?
2. What exactly did the dispatcher provide to the LEO answering the call? Something was odd because the LEO didn't seem to have an apartment number and relied on two strangers to provide it??
3. When the LEO went to the victims apartment - did he not stop and listen to see if there was any argument or domestic disturbance sounds coming from inside??
The fact that someone answers the door with a gun pointed down/not in your direction is no reason to immediately draw on a person and blast them. I don't know if the victim made a bad motion with the gun that drew the LEO's fire but it sure seems like it was a shoot first then tell the guy to drop the weapon kind of encounter.
Regardless - this was a totally innocent victim of a big time police mistake (wrong apartment) with the possibility of screw ups from the dispatcher and the LEO being way to anxious to pull his gun (maybe a relatively new officer??).
Like I said - will have to see what the investigation reveals but from the initial story - it looks like the town owes this family a bunch of wrongful death money and that LEO may be culpable as well...
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All-TigerNet [11488]
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Re: Will be interesting to get a full accounting in the investigation but from first
May 13, 2024, 7:57 PM
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I live in the country far off the road and had knock at the door after dark and wasn't expecting anyone. When I got to the door, my pistol was in my back pocket, out of site with my hand on it.
I looked outside and didn't see anything threatening so I answered the door. As it turned out it was nothing serious but even after 10 minutes of talking to them and walking out on the porch, they never saw or knew I had the pistol. They didn't feel threatened and everything was good.
How do you think things would or could have gone if I had opened the door with my pistol in my hand? Maybe they had hidden pistols to pull and we could have had a Wild West shootout over nothing. Not my idea of a good evening.
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Heisman Winner [112458]
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Re: What's the point of the 2nd Ammendment if the cops can kill you in your own home
May 13, 2024, 8:05 PM
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reason 101 why owning a gun makes you more likely to get shot by one.
you'all have fun with that.
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All-TigerNet [11488]
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Re: What's the point of the 2nd Ammendment if the cops can kill you in your own home
May 14, 2024, 8:31 AM
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You do you.
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